Hi guys I am Inotia King a youtuber, redditor and gamer who likes theorizing about the story. I actually cobbled together a list of some of my more important theories with respect to the game Genshin Impact and Star Rail that I have been basing all of my newer theories on. I'll be putting more of those up on Hive along with new stuff but if you're impatient I also archived all my theories here. I hope some of you guys are game theorists too. Let's try to figure out these great games together!

(This theory ended up long because it compiles several old topics so I've added a summary at the end.)

Last time I talked about how we might see the Khaenri'ah Chapter play out. But I also brought something up in passing without actually going into it.

So why did I phrase Rhinedottir's attack as simultaneously hitting each of the regions and then hurling an iron meteorite at the Chasm? I'm not sure if the map I presented a while ago did the trick but have a look at this:

So this is a "map" showing the four guardians. (actually five) In China there was a belief that elemental beasts protected the cardinal directions of the nation with the strongest of them the Huanglong representing the empire itself. My map prediction for Teyvat tried to mimic this with the six other nations surrounding the central Liyue region under Teyvat's "Huanglong" Yellow Dragon Morax.

We know that Khaenri'ah ended up being a danger to Teyvat and so the Archons alongside Celestia had to seal it away. The nation is known to be underground with at least one gateway leading to Sumeru. Because of Rhinedottir's simultaneous attacks I argued last time that gateways might exist per region. But it wouldn't include Liyue because otherwise they wouldn't have had to attack the region by throwing a meteorite of its forces at it. They could just use the gate. In terms of my four guardians thing, you can't reach the empire itself and Huanglong without first breaching its outer defenses protected by one of the other guardians or in Genshin one of the other Archons.

Side Note: That said there's a World Quest in v3.8 called Recollections of a Fontainian that has a single line suggesting that Natlan is "across the desert" with implications that the character means across the desert from the rainforest area of Sumeru. This would line up with the popular theory that Natlan is all the way on the far west side of the Sumeru desert. If it does turn out that Natlan is that far to the west that would have offset Liyue too far to the right to represent Huanglong. But thanks to the release of Chenyu Vale, its relation to the Chasm and the fact that Celestia is now proven to be floating directly over it, this theory is still going strong.

Anyway coupled with my theory from last time this should mean that we'll essentially work backwards in the Khaenri'ah Chapter to what we're playing now. We'd continue off of the Snezhnaya Archon Quest with the revelation that the gates to Khaenri'ah are being targeted on a grand scale by the Abyss Order. As more and more gates open up the heart of Khaenri'ah will become available and it could be that the Abyss intends to do something in the old capital that will breach the surface which happens to be right under Liyue. (I mean of course we're going to stop that from happening but it would be a way to throw in some drama something like the ending plot of Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood.)

On the other hand maybe the landmass of Liyue acts as a natural barrier against the Void Realm aka the "Abyss" and the weakest point of that was the Chasm. With the rest of Khaenri'ah accessible again maybe the Abyss Order can finally puncture a hole through the Chasm and allow the Sinner to reach the surface. But wait I hear you ask because I can do that, didn't it already escape when we unlocked the Unknown Sanctuary? Yeah what about the Unknown Sanctuary?

If we look at the entryway into it during the quest it's literally just the cavern passage in between Liyue and Sumeru. But there's zero trace of the sanctuary in the present. What happened to it? We're introduced to the Unknown Sanctuary in the latest Dainsleif Quest: Caribert. This place was curiously gathering hilichurl worshippers and even lulled Chlothar into kneeling in prayer. The location housed a strange purple crystal that held someone calling itself the "Sinner" who Dainsleif believes was able to communicate in the present to the Traveler as they dreamt of their sibling's memories thanks to a nearby Leyline disruption. We don't know anything else about this entity but the location where it was held isn't unique.

Back in v2.6 the Chasm released and with it another Dainsleif Quest: Requiem of Echoing Depths. Most of this quest centered around the Upside-down City a series of ruins that were oddly hanging from the ceiling of one of the deeper caves in the Chasm. While the quest focused on a strange pool in the middle of the ruins I think the most important detail came much earlier when we ask Dainsleif if the ruins are Khaenri'ahn to which he says they likely belong to an even older civilization.

Finally in v2.7 we got the event and Chasm Delvers sequel, Perilous Trail. Late into this quest we can find notes left by Boyang describing a palace with strange properties.

Something about that palace negatively affected the Abyss Order. A fountain in the Upside-down City also weakened the curse affecting the Khaenri'ahns. And the Unknown Sanctuary's Sinner (specifying that he was not a god) was held in chains there. The Unknown Sanctuary also featured puzzles which required us to travel through portal to the ceiling where we were able to walk normally as if the whole area had been flipped upside-down.

Yes what I'm trying to suggest is that I think all three of these things are the same thing. Well parts of the same thing. And like the image above shows, after we finish the Caribert quest if you go back to the area where the Domain was it's just the tunnel between Sumeru and the Chasm. In the present day there are mining supports there. It's never really stated that we can't revisit that area again but the Domain no longer exists outside of that quest and neither has the MC linked it to the Upside-down City that's still accessible. So my guess for now is that we can't access the Unknown Sanctuary because it isn't there anymore. After the Sinner escaped the sanctuary eventually collapsed or was removed.

So what happened?

We know from the Prayers Artifacts that the first generation of humans under Phanes had absolute faith in it. And we also know from a few sources (the most recent of which is probably Apep) that Phanes considered them dear and precious. The last thing to know is that Phanes is claimed to be the First Descender by Nahida which so far seems to be correct.

I've talked about the Descenders before and that there may be some version of it where the Sinner was one of them. But even if he isn't I think it's still safe to say he'd be at a similar power level. To protect Teyvat and the humans from the Sinner and the Void Realm, Phanes was summoned and managed to defeat it but couldn't destroy it. Instead it imprisoned it inside of that purple crystal and then used its power to enchant an entire city what would become the Upside-down City. Through its power the entire city could dampen the Abyss. This is what we see in Perilous Trail with Boyang. As the Abyss forces neared it they grew weak and then became prey to something that was also present something that also ended up devouring Boyang and the Millileth.

I think so far most people consider it the same thing but I think the Caribert quest tells us it was something else. When we arrive at the door to the Sinner we're greeted by something that looks like an Abyss Herald but called itself the Fortune Lector. Our MC actually notes that they aren't the same thing. We know that the Heralds are previously Khaenri'ahns (read: humans) turned into them through Abyssal Energy. So it's likely the Fortune Lector is an equally empowered human but given Celestial Energy. (This follows with information we've gotten about how the Abyss and Celestia are opposing peer forces.) I think it's also unlikely that even with Celestia's power any human guards would have been a match against the Sinner and the forces it could amass to free itself. So this goes into other theories of mine which taken together along with Apep's line that some dragons accepted the Heavenly Principles should mean that there were Archons on the payroll as well. So the setup was a whole city dedicated to imprisoning the Sinner, a Descender level entity by being imbued with Celestial Energy that weakens Abyssal Energy. On top of that the city is secured by a guard of Archons and empowered humans.

This would have been fine except then the Second Throne of Heaven descended. Now I have my theory on why they came into conflict but regardless they did and we know that during this time a solar chariot fell into the Chasm and then returned to the heavens. I think Phanes might have been concerned that the Second Who Came wanted to free the Sinner. I don't think it did but the important part is that Phanes thought it did and so in response I think it tried plucking the Chasm from the ground hoping to remove the Sinner from its reach. Unfortunately when you're in the middle of an earth-shattering war mistakes happen and can't be addressed. So while a large portion of what would become the Chasm did get removed (I even think this land might be Celestia itself) the Unknown Sanctuary ended up being left on Teyvat. Even worse (and based on that theory) the next thing to happen was the Archon War. During the Archon War all the Archons either fled, became one of the Seven or died and we also know from things like Xiao's teaser that many died and became vengeful. If I'm right about the guard detail for the Sinner then those Archons that were on duty also perished and also became evil gods. Over time their malice became that entity we escaped from at the end of Perilous Trail. This would be the creature that preyed on the weakened Abyss forces and the trapped Millileth. (with the Fantastic Compass doing the trapping)

Whatever happened afterwards we know that Phanes ended up acting through the Divine Nails and not directly. One of those nails is still in the Chasm. It could be that Phanes sent the nail as a second attempt to bury the Sinner and prevent its escape. And it worked for a long time. The Archon War ended two thousand years ago and then the Abyss Order tried to attack the Chasm by sending an iron meteorite at it only five hundred years ago. They were able to reach the palace of this city but thanks to Boyang and Bosacius they still failed to free the Sinner.

But after

1. centuries of neglect
2. the less than stellar plan of pulling the city's landmass out which probably damaged the physical structure
3. the dropping of a Divine Nail that only worked to activate the upside-down mechanism and further damage the city albeit providing another source for Celestial Energy
4. an overreaction of a war against the Second Who Came that cracked the foundations of Teyvat itself
5. another war that cost the lives of the Archon forces guarding the ruined city and finally an Abyss Order strike against it,

it's very likely what was left was not enough to keep the Sinner's power from seeping out. So following the Cataclysm the Sinner managed to draw in the Khaenri'ahns that were already believers in the Abyss. Finally thanks to a combined effort of the Khaenri'ahn survivors and our own Descender sibling the last defenses were defeated aka the Fortune Lector and the Sinner was freed.

Now if I'm suggesting that a whole palace was made with special anti-Abyss properties just to imprison this Sinner, just who is this guy? Why does he warrant so much care?

I've talked about this previously but I think the Sinner is either the Void itself aka Chaos or more likely an avatar of its presence on Teyvat. We really don't have much to go on with this guy but there seems to be two prevailing theories.

On the one hand you have Deshret. This theory is centered around only one thing:

Personally I don't think there's anything to it. We're told directly by Apep that Deshret's plan we see depicted in this cutscene was to have Apep devour him and take in the forbidden knowledge in him that was ruining his kingdom. The Sinner also stated plainly that he was not a god. So it's very unlikely that he'd turn out to be a god which is what Deshret was.

The other theory is about Nibelung the Dragon King. Similar to Deshret the theory is centered around Apep stating that Nibelung was their leader hearkening back to Before Sun and Moon which put both of them in the group called the Seven Sovereigns, dragon-lords that Phanes defeated. Apep states that Nibelung then turned to the Abyss for a power beyond Teyvat that they believed could defeat it. We don't know the details but Nibelung failed and Apep tried to continue the plan until Phanes sent down the Divine Nails. So the idea is that Nibelung failed because he was caught as the Sinner.

Just like with Deshret I'm not convinced. It's a step further removed but it goes into the same thing. The Sinner stated it wasn't a god and from the same Nahida's Second Character Quest that Nibelung is first mentioned we know that dragons, gods and Archons, slimes and specters are all just different power levels of the same thing: elemental beings. Several moments in the quest show that there's not really much of a difference. It was even how Nahida appealed to Apep despite the dragon being heavily influenced by the Abyss at the time. Anyway since the Sinner said he wasn't a god it means he shouldn't be a dragon either. But on top of that I've brought up a few times now that while there now are Apep, Neuvillette and dragons in this game the rest of the lore surrounding Teyvat's past not to mention the absence of physical ruins from any period earlier than the unified human civilization's don't lend themselves well to a separate dragon only time period for Teyvat. There's a poem written in Latin which means it had to have been written by someone from the unified civilization but the poem mentions Barbatos who only became Barbatos during the Archon War and is even younger than Decarabian and Andrius. Nahida stated that Apep while she was one of the Seven Sovereigns was the sovereign of Sumeru and not some older region from a bygone era. The current Seven Nations which includes Sumeru were formed during the Archon War. We know plenty of details about Liyue's formation for example.

But there might be more theories still when it comes to Nibelung. Let's talk real world lore!

In Nordic and German folklore Nibelung isn't a person but rather a people. Some of you guys have already looked into it, likely stemming back from checking out what Alberich means or who Rhinedottir could be. Looking with reference to them you'll find that Nibelung is a race of dwarves. Alberich is one of those dwarves and in some versions their king. Alberich in some interpretations is also the German Oberon, King of the Fae. Actually it was from that that I personally theorized back then that it meant Kaeya was a royal prince of Khaenri'ah which has since been debunked.

But how many of you guys know that there might actually be historical context for the Nibelung? The more common idea for the origin of Nibelung is that it means cloud or mist but that comes from the word nebula. On the other hand we have the term nebulones Franci which means Nibelungan Franks and could refer to the Burgundians. Nebulones in Latin can mean things like scoundrels and slaves so not all too different from barbarian. The Burgundians are a group of Germanic people who once upon a time lived in the Rhinelands. They existed there around the time Rome occupied the area which is also where we get the term German. (Latin Germania) So we have the Nibelungs of Germanic descent encountering Romans in the Rhineland. If we take a look at this from a Genshin perspective then it all fits with what we'd known previously about the real world lore for Khaenri'ah and the unified human civilization that came before it. It also then makes sense why these things all feature in Das Rheingold which was the primary source we all used for Rhinedottir and Khaenri'ah in the past. It might also explain why Mondstadt and Fontaine are now the only two nations to be attacked by one of Rhinedottir's dragons and not the other kinds of Abyss forces. Additionally Dvalin, Durin, Nibelung and Elynas are all based on Germanic lore. (Elynas more by proxy) Maybe it could hint at a historic relationship between the Khaenri'ahns and the surviving dragon lords. Both Nibelung and Khaenri'ah (according to Chlothar) put their faith into the Abyss as a power from beyond the world that could upend the Heavenly Principles. Instead of being the sinner could it be possible that Nibelung encouraged Khaenri'ah to believe in the Abyss simultaneously causing their bias against the gods?

Anyway stories like Das Rheingold come from Germanic folklore and the most important source for this folklore is the Poetic Edda. In one of these poems we have a character Siegfried who also becomes a Nibelung. But this story is very weird. There are many different versions but each of them uses "Nibelung" to mean very different things. If we take all of the mentions together then the story goes like this:

Siegfried is a traveling warrior of noble origins. He comes upon the Nibelungs of the kingdom Nibelung and meets with the two princes Schilbung and -wait for it- Nibelung lol. Since the king of the Nibelung has recently passed, the princes are having trouble dividing the royal treasury between them and ask Siegfried for help. And he does. By killing them both and a ton of I'm going to guess their forces and so Nibelung took him for their king.... which then made him a Nibelung. (scoundrel) After this he goes on to fight Alberich the King of the Nibelung, not the kingdom Siegfried's ruling over but that group of dwarves also called the Nibelung. After defeating him Alberich serves as his guard.

Ok why am I telling you guys about Siegfried though? I mean it's cute there's so many _Nibelung_s he came across but besides that it really doesn't have anything to do with Nibelung the Dragon King right? Well Siegfried initially caught my eye because he's already a Hoyoverse character. He's the father of Kiana and Bianka in Honkai Impact. Also it bears mentioning that another character, the fairly recently released Shigure Kira considers him to be a scoundrel. (and I think a pervert too) So I thought nebulones being Latin for scoundrel was quite the coincidence.

So I looked for more connections and I found them. In another version of the Siegfried story the Nibelung (this time meaning the royal treasure) he gets is a wife. He arrives in the kingdom and it's directly related to the Burgundians this time. In one version the princess Kriemhild is captured by a dragon and after Siegfried slays it he bathes in its blood becoming invincible. In another version the prince Gunther makes a deal with him that if he can help him court Queen Brunhildr then he'll arrange for Kriemhild to marry him. In this version Siegfried already killed the dragon and he also has the sword Balmung and a cloak Tarnkappe that both makes him superhumanly strong and can turn him invisible. Using these powers he secretly helps Gunther accomplish a series of trials to win Brunhildr's hand thereby becoming a Nibelung. (again not the kingdom but the scoundrel thing) As a result Brunhildr plots to assassinate Siegfried and a bunch of shenanigans later Kriemhild is tricked into telling her other brother Hagen where Siegfried forgot to apply the dragon blood so he gets stabbed there and dies cursing the Nibelungs. (I'm going to guess here he's cursing "the scoundrels" of the kingdom that betrayed him thereby giving the Burgundians their connection to the term.)

All of that was for really just two things: He once killed a dragon and used its power to become invincible (except for an Achille's Heel kind of deal) and he has the power of invisibility. And if he is a scoundrel I don't think that's too much a stretch from Sinner. We know the Sinner is very powerful because it represents the Void Realm aka the Abyss. But he was also a purple crystal chained up and locked away inside a heavily fortified citadel and then the next time we go there there's no sign of the crystal at all like it just disappeared. It's a stretch but maybe we could link it to invisibility?

Taking all of this Poetic Edda stuff together Genshin's Sinner Siegfried could have found the "kingdom" of the dragons (the Seelie Kingdom) and in their struggle during the chaotic times of primordial Teyvat influenced some of them to follow him. Eventually the First Descender arrived and reshaped Teyvat with the goal of eliminating the threat the Sinner posed. So the Sinner moved on. Using the majesty of the Dragon King Nibelung he slowly convinced the next kingdom the Khaenri'ahns to also believe in him and became their "god" despite already being incarcerated in the Unknown Sanctuary. Ultimately he even convinced the regents of Khaenri'ah, the Alberichs who would go on to serve him including Chlothar the eventual founder of the Abyss Order. This then set off a cascade of events that would lead to his freedom from the sanctuary. What a scoundrel.

And if the Sinner really did actively corrupt Khaenri'ah into believing in it and the Abyss I think I might have actually found something interesting. A long time ago we got lore about Rhinedottir from Six-Fingered Jose. Back then it was taken that Rhinedottir, then known just as Gold was "corrupted by her own greed and ambition" and therefore set off the events of the Cataclysm. Later on people found the original Chinese version and most accepted a single translation that "there was no mention of greed and ambition corrupting her." But that was the end of it. So here's a translation of what wasn't actually about greed and ambition.

被称为「黄金」的炼金士堕落为了罪人，孕育了大量漆黑的魔兽。
The alchemist called "yellow gold" disgraced themselves for a sinner, birthing a large amount of black monsters.

The words 为了 mean "on behalf of" and these words are followed by 罪人 a sinner but maybe it's actually The Sinner since it's the same term in use. If this translation can be taken literally it means she might have concocted the Cataclysm not even just because of greed or ambition but under the direction of the Sinner itself for the purpose of freeing it.

So let's go back to the events. Rhinedottir created Durin to attack Mondstadt. She also created Elynas to attack Fontaine. As far as we know the other regions were just attacked by her other experiments like the Rifthounds and the forces now in the Abyss Order. But Liyue wasn't directly attacked. Instead she had an iron meteorite flung into the Chasm, the site of the Unknown Sanctuary. She was able to use direct gateways connecting Khaenri'ah to the other nations but not Liyue because that was where the sanctuary was and the gateways in the other nations acted as outer defenses. Ultimately though the attack paved the way for Chlothar to end up finding it battered and weakened with only a single Fortune Lector guarding the prisoner. So maybe combined with the Siegfried becomes king after "helping" the princes settle an inheritance problem this could mean that Genshin's Siegfried expy is the reason behind Rhinedottir's quest for Rubedo and further illustrates that he is the primary source of all conflict in Teyvat.

Side Note: Speaking of which I ended up looking into it again and miHoYo doesn't just have one Siegfried character. In Honkai Gakuen not only is there a Siegfried Kaslana, father of Kiana but there's also Siegfried, an Awakened God of Babylon.

And I even have a name miHoYo could use for this Siegfried expy: Hermann or Armin. It comes from a proposed theory on who Siegfried might have been based on historically. Hermann was a Germanic hostage of Rome. Rome had this policy of brainwashing people from newly acquired territories into believing they should serve Roman interests. But Hermann who Rome renamed Arminius used deceitful tactics to soundly defeat Rome and become king of his tribe. Ever since Rome considered Arminius a traitor. Doesn't sound all that different from Celestia forcing the Heavenly Principles on everyone and then marking those that defy it as sinners.

In summary:

• The Seven Nations of Teyvat are sitting on top of Khaenri'ah. The other six nations surrounding Liyue may serve as physical barriers sealing it off from the surface while Liyue itself acts as a final line of defense.
• In Liyue, the Chasm was the site of the Unknown Sanctuary which housed the Sinner.
• The landmass of Celestia itself could be pieces of the Chasm lifted from it as an attempt by Phanes to isolate the Sinner from humanity's reach. This failed.
• Enigmatic underground palace = Upside-down City = Unknown Sanctuary
• The physical structure belonged to the unified human civilization.
• Phanes imbued it with its Light Element power which dampens Abyssal Energy.
• Phanes set up loyal Archon and human guards to protect it and keep the Sinner from being freed.
• During the war against the Second Who Came Phanes pulled the land in an attempt to keep it from the Second Who Came which failed.
• As a second attempt Phanes used a Divine Nail to destroy or seal the area. This succeeded but damaged the physical structure even more.
• The Archon War killed most Archons including the ones guarding the area. They eventually became the dark creature that we faced in Perilous Trail.
• During the Cataclysm the Abyss attacked the Chasm with an iron meteorite maybe in an attempt to free the Sinner. This failed but they were able to open a path to the Unknown Sanctuary.
• Chlothar and the MC's sibling eventually discover the sanctuary and accidentally free the Sinner.
• What happens to the sanctuary after is unclear but the Enigmatic underground palace is sealed away by the Fantastic Compass and the rest of the Upside-down City is still accessible.
• There are two theories on who the Sinner shown in the Caribert Archon Quest might be. Either he is Deshret or Nibelung.
• I don't think either of them work very well based on the currently known information in the game.
• But maybe the previously suspected connections between the Sinner and Nibelung could actually hint at historical interaction between Nibelung and the nascent Khaenri'ahn nation.
• Siegfried is a Honkai character who also shares a connection with Nibelung and potentially even connections with Nibelung's that relate to his interactions with Khaenri'ah. Could Siegfried be the Sinner instead?
• Siegfried's successes came from deceitful means that each gained him power. Could the Sinner have done the same thing?
• The Sinner corrupted the dragons under Nibelung which led to Phanes descending to put a stop to it. It then used Nibelung and its prestige as the Dragon King to corrupt the young Khaenri'ahn civilization setting it on a path to eventually free it from its imprisonment in the Unknown Sanctuary.
• Based on a closer look at the oldest lore about Rhinedottir it may be that the Sinner was even responsible for the path she chose and the Rubedo she's seeking.
• Armin or Hermann could be the name for the Sinner.

What do you guys think? Does it make sense that the entire ancient ruin we find down in the Chasm is related to where the Sinner was kept? Could Phanes have handled things better? Did Phanes do the right thing? Was the Abyss Order specifically trying to free the Sinner or was the attack on the Chasm just coincidence? Does the idea of a Siegfried expy sound more or less likely than the other two? Do you guys have your own idea on who the Sinner might be besides the three I brought up?

Topic originally created on July 29th, 2023.