At a joint press conference of the presidents of Russia and France in St. Petersburg, Vladimir Putin and Emmanuel Macron were asked three questions on topics that rarely become the subject of broad public discussion and truthful coverage in Russian media: Russia's role in the tragedy of 2014, when in the sky above Donbass was hit by a passenger plane MH17 flight Malaysian Airlines, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur; the situation of civil society and the fate of political prisoners, in particular, the Ukrainian director Oleg Sentsov ; The accusations brought against the Kremlin in connection with cyber attacks and interference in the election process in a number of countries, such as the United States and France.
Question RTL (as asked): Good evening, this visit takes place on the day when the Dutch investigation team released the conclusion that the MH17 flight was shot down in the sky over the Donbass by the 53rd brigade of the Russian army. First, President Putin, what is your reaction? And, Mr. President Makron, will it not complicate the prospects for rapprochement in relations with Russia?
Further. Mr. President Makron, you met today with representatives of civil society and talked about the need to respect human rights. How did Mr. Putin react to this meeting? These NGOs have issued an appeal to free Sentsov and Titieva. Was this heard by Mr. Putin or not?
And the last. A question for both presidents. You talked about cyberattacks. Recently, the US report appeared, in which they again accused Russia, there was talk about the possible introduction of new sanctions. Have you discussed this? Is there any escalation?
In the official simultaneous translation, however, even the very word combination "investigation group" for Boeing of Malaysian airlines, as well as the surnames Sentsov and Titiev were absent. We quote from the Kremlin website .
RTL question (as translated): This visit takes place on the day when the Dutch commission announced the decision on the Donbass. What was your reaction, President Putin, to this decision? Will there be any consequences, complicating relations with France? Were civil rights affected? ....
A question for both Presidents. You talked about cyberattacks. Recently, the US report appeared, in which they again accused Russia. There was talk about the possible introduction of new sanctions. Have you discussed this? Is there any escalation?
Translation forced Vladimir Putin to ask clarifying questions:
Vladimir Putin: Excuse me, please. What decision did you speak about?
Question: A Malaysian aircraft that was shot down in Donbass, Ukraine.
Vladimir Putin: You know, we worked all day today, so I do not know the details of the commission's decision. But I can tell you at once, even without getting acquainted with what is there. Our attitude to this case is this: we originally proposed joint work to investigate this tragedy. To our surprise, we are not allowed to do this investigation.
The Ukrainian side works there, despite the fact that Ukraine violated international rules and did not close the airspace over the territory where the fighting took place. But it works, and Russia does not. Therefore, we do not know what is written there, on what is based what the commission writes there.
In order for us to recognize what is stated there, we must take full part in the investigation. But in any case, we will treat this with respect and analyze everything that is stated there, we will formulate our attitude to this matter. So far I have not even seen this text.
Yes, and the second question?
Question: On the meeting of Mr. Macron with NGOs today evening, with human rights organizations.
V.Putin: About Sentsov was asked.
You know what. Mr. Sentsov was detained for preparing for terrorist acts, and not for his journalistic activities. I am extremely surprised that you, the French journalist, are not asking yourself the question of restricting the activities of journalists in Ukraine.
Just recently, a few days ago, your colleague, a Russian journalist, was detained. He is charged with high treason for his public position and for his work as a journalist. For some reason, his fate does not interest you. Agree, this is strange.
Let's be attentive to all the ongoing processes in Europe - Eastern, Western, on any continents.
We know that conscientious and courageous journalists, especially when working in conflict situations, are often at risk, many risk their lives, even die. We treat such people with great respect and believe that their activities, their lives, must be protected. We, for our part, will do everything for this. But let's be objective, detailed. This is the only way to solve any problems, otherwise there will be no trust in each other.
E. Macron: There was also a question about cyberattacks.
Vladimir Putin: I can say about cyberattacks, about picketing in the press, and so on, and so on.
Action always meets with opposition. Always. And that there was no opposition that someone does not like, you need to agree on the rules of these actions, on the rules of conduct in certain spheres.
Once, when humanity invented a nuclear weapon, an atomic bomb, everyone realized how dangerous this is, and agreed on what rules should be, so that tragedy does not happen.
It is now quite clear that cyberspace is the most important sphere of life, the activities of millions of people. Let's agree on how we will work together here, agree on common rules, develop mechanisms for monitoring compliance with these rules.
Today we talked with Mr. President and agreed that we will try, we will make the necessary efforts to follow this path.
Then it was Emmanuel Macron's turn to answer the same questions. That's how the Russian-speaking audience could understand the answers of the French president, who watched the translation in the official translation:
E. Macron: On the first question that you mentioned. On the 17th of March. I think about the victims, about the families of victims in many countries, in particular, in Belgium, the Netherlands and Australia. Today's information we receive, and France is making every effort to participate in the joint investigation, and we are confident that it is objective. The President said that there is a desire to cooperate on this issue. I think, as soon as it becomes clear on the details, on the facts, we will be able in full solidarity with the Netherlands to assume that Russia's role ... It has played an objective, constructive role in establishing the facts. As the president just said, I'm glad he decided, as he told me, to cooperate in the investigation. This is an important stage. But there is still a long and important work to do.
On the second issue, as I said, we spoke absolutely transparently with the president, with his team. Responsible persons in NGOs, who are in charge of civil life in Russia. We talked about writers, about famous personalities, and in particular about Ms. Solzhenitsyna. We will soon celebrate the anniversary of Solzhenitsyn. Our dialogue showed that it is complementary. And civil society also contributes to this (inaudible) dialogue. It is not exclusive. But civil society must communicate, it is very important. We also talked about human rights during our talks. Many issues were mentioned, including Mr. Sentsov, just mentioned by Mr. Putin, Mr. Serebrennikov, who also forced many to mobilize. I told the President that these are two very sensitive issues for our country, because the intellectual elite is very concerned about this, and we hope that we will be able to conduct a dialogue on this issue, I think that we work both in terms of effectiveness and we cherish it very much . And every time we can do this, we want to work out effective solutions together. I do not manage the justice system of this country, but we can conduct a sincere, frank dialogue, and I think that we will be able to move forward.
As for cyberattacks, we know that they write about this, what they say about this. We take this into account, I already talked about this. I believe that this is the real problem of today, it is a problem that feeds part of the problems that exist in our society on human rights issues, because cyber attacks have their economic aspect, they have a security aspect. We are required to influence this, to intervene in order to (inaudibly) to push this situation to development. In any case, this is a timely question, and throughout the world it is being discussed. This requires us to organize ourselves. And we discussed this issue, but before we conduct a public debate, we share information in order to discuss specific issues. We worked out a roadmap. We have information, and President Putin talks with his team about this, and we will exchange this information, and we will start working, which will be to some extent confidential, but we will (inaudible) as far as possible lay the foundation of security in this area, because we need common rules. If they do not exist, we will always face certain events, and therefore we need our economic leaders and industry figures to work out common rules. As with many other issues. I think that this initiative, which we are taking today, is useful, it will certainly support other areas of cooperation, and we therefore took a certain decision.
So, judging by the official translation, "Russia played an objective, constructive role in establishing facts" for MH17 (in translation it was March 17), the presidents, if they spoke about human rights, it is only from the point of view of common problems for both countries, and cyber attacks are an industrial problem. The part about Oleg Sentsov and Kirill Serebrennikov also fell out . About Serebrennikov Macron was not asked, but he decided to pronounce this name from the official podium.
E. Macron: On the first question you asked, according to MH17. First of all, of course, I think about the families of those killed in many countries of the world, most of them in Belgium, the Netherlands and Australia. About today's information. I must say that France fully supports the efforts of the Joint Investigation Team. And we are sure that it is objective. The President has just said the important thing: he announced his intention to cooperate. And as soon as the International Investigation Group confirms that it has received the latest missing facts, we can in full solidarity with the Netherlands say that Russia has taken a constructive position on this issue and took part in the investigation of all the circumstances of the tragedy. I am glad that the president made a choice in favor of cooperation and take part in the investigation. This is an important stage of the investigation for us. But there is still a lot to do in it.
The second question about which you asked me, yes, I can immediately say, we talked about it absolutely openly with the president and his team. On the second question that you asked me. I do not remember all the details of your question exactly, but I was extremely frank with the president and his team. Namely, non-governmental organizations play an important role in the democratic life of Russia - in particular, the Memorial Society, many writers and intellectuals or, for example, Ms. [Natalia] Solzhenitsyna . This year, in a few weeks, France will also celebrate the anniversary of Alexander Solzhenitsyn. And for me it is a good opportunity to demonstrate that all the dialogues on the public plane go to the aid of both parties, and that conversations about civil society are possible not only in the framework of Trianon, but these are vital subjects that enable us to dialogue. Sharing our views, we discussed human rights issues, and in particular, the [Oleg Sentsov's case, which President Putin recalled, and the case of [Cyril] Serebrennikov, which I consider very important. I did not hide from the president that in our country these two cases are very close to the heart and there is a large intellectual and artistic community that regards these matters very seriously. And I think that we should speak out about this. I here adhere to a simple line: we are able to move forward. And I hope that in negotiations with the president we will each time be able to speak on the merits, solving the tasks facing us. And I - answering the argument that was brought by the President (Putin) - is not responsible for the legal system in this country, but I advocate an open and honest dialogue, and I hope that we will be able to move forward on this issue.
Finally, about cyberattacks. We are aware of everything that is written and said about this. We take all this into account, I already had the opportunity to state this. This is indeed a real problem of the day, it affects both elections and human rights, cyberattacks are reflected in the industrial and economic aspects of life, as well as on security issues. These problems affect the state of the social atmosphere and affect, after all, the population of the entire globe. And we tried to conduct the conversation in a pragmatic manner, paying due attention to this area.
Before going out with a discussion of our subjects before a broad audience, we exchanged information and settled some individual issues, creating a common road map.
And thus, we, and Putin's team also, have general information, we can begin work that will help build the foundations for a substantial settlement of cyberspace. Since if we fail to work out the basis for a common law for all, we will constantly face unacceptable things. It is necessary to give all participants of state, industrial and economic interaction such rules of the universally recognized game as we have developed on other issues.
Thus, it seems to me that today's initiatives were useful and did not violate the already existing fragile understanding of these issues, since these are concrete and effective initiatives.